OK. Speaking for myself, there's not a lot happening here for me. I refer to many of my posts and comments but most specifically the ones pertaining to the Afrika Burns phenomonen, which has been for me the spiritual highlight of the last 20 years. For all the effort, the practical and theoretical exploration, I have experienced precious little feedback or engagement.
Why is this? Am I a smelly posthippy desert rat freak no one wants to talk to? Is this all dangerous heresy? Is it irrelevant to the mission of this website? My close ones tell me I am oblique, that every thing I say needs to be reinterpreted. I know that, I am hard work.
But is no one interested enough to say
There is no honest question, reservation, challenge that is beyond G-d. What is the opposite of Love? Is is passionate, confrontatory, iconoclastic hate? I think not - the true opposite of Love is indifference.
If we can't take on the fringes of normality, how are we ever going to push the boundaries that need to be pushed, how are we to "Emerge", how is the Kingdom of G-d to "forcefully advance"? Is is it all over already for emergence, and back to business as usual in church. If thats the case, I am out of here.
embarrased silence.
There. Thats better. That's the emotional rant. I don't enjoy confronting, I love discussion, communing, worshipping. I love the ecclesia, I love YOU.
But I cannot, I will not, do what I have done for the last 30 years. I want creativity, spark, revelation, healing, transformation, newness. I want grounding, authenticity, discussion, deepening, lateral thought, music, food, dance. I want to know that heartfelt words are not disappearing down some rabbit hole of "like, whatever".
I want Jesus the shepherd, Jesus the shaman, Jesus the True Vine, Jesus the party animal, Jesus the King.
Comments
Burning
Well, since you asked, I'll make a comment, and give one of the answers you provided:
"I see your enthusiasms but its not for me, I simply don't have a category for this phenomonen."
I've read John Morehead's posts. I've seen that it's the biggest community on Tribe.net, but for myself, I just don't have anything to say about it. It doesn't scratch where I itch.
no itch, no problem
Steve
I consider us to having substantial overlap in interests/vision. We have commented when appropriate (and itchy enough) on each others blogs. I have quoted your writing many times. For you, or anyone else, not to be interested in Afrika Burns in particular is clearly not a problem. I did not intend to make this one event the issue.
My comments are generally aimed (at no-one in particular) at the fact that there doesn't seem to be much of a conversation on this site. Obviously there is Stray, Envoy, yourself, Roger, Cori, and others, but the silent/passive percentage is, for me, somewhat high. Or maybe the name should be changed to "Lurking Africa", I dunno.
The question coming out of this pertains to Vision: Who says something is a true or authentic direction? If we want to "attract" an audience do we use market strategy aimed at a critical mass of potential followers? Or do we just wade on in, following our bliss, regardless of numeric consequences?
So maybe my interests are not those of this "community". I certainly don't want or need to coerce or persuade anyone. But I do see mere curiosity as an important indicator of life. I'm just looking to connect.
One thing I will emphasise, the world is changing and much of the church seems happily unaware of this, or demonises these changes, avoiding missional responsibility.
But I'm definately not wanting to emphasise my mission over anyone elses - I am acutely aware of my shortcomings ... Alone, I cannot make up for them, only in the context of and as part of the Ecclesia, the Body of Faith, will I come through the future fiery judgement where each person's work will be shown for what it is. THAT is why I get worked up about not connecting.
Thanks for the directions to tribe.net.
He he
Sufficiently well put rant. I've posted a few things here on this blog and just heard crickets. I know how that can be frustrating!
In fact, I've often thought that the questions being asked around here just aren't relevant.
The issue is, that I'm asking some questions that are relevant for me, but not for others.
The truth about your Afrika burns post, for me, was that I couldn't make sense of what any of it was about. I thought everyone else did, and actually felt as if I was obviously outside of a particular circle of people that obviously just doesn't include me :)
Maybe you just needed to word it differently? It was a festival, where you burnt stuff. That's all I could really make of it. Personally, I didn't see the point, and am not even sure if it was some alt.worship event or a festival where those few who are actually interested in culture and philosophy etc. could have a place to go.
All in all, you may just need to clarify what the heck it was about, and then you would probably get more of a response. I read the post again, but maybe I'm missing something.
You wanted honest response :)
In light of this, I want to say that Emergent Africa does have a bit of an identity crisis - I love the site, but sometimes I wonder if we're really discussing things that are relevant to most of Africa, or if we're just ranting about what bugs us within our institutionalised borders... something to think about.
www.ryanpeterwrites.com
"The Glory of God is man fully alive" - St Iraneaus
Imponderable, Arcane, Obtuse, Enigmatic... Dude!
Stray
Thanks for the feedback. I fully appreciate that you couldn't make sense of a phenomonen that until recently was only on the fringes of my radar.
I would like to see as helpful the synchroblog we set up, here you get many POV's, so as to build up a perspective. And we also supplied a fine set of images to make up where words serve to confuse or obfiscate. (<-- like RIGHT THERE!)
I think your concern with how we incarnate in the African context is very important. It bothers me but I have been around that block once (6-8 years worth) and am unsure how to re-engage. I'd be delighted to support others with a more African vision (if they would make themselves known).
So my fine oily feathered friend are you in CT? I can't remember. I think a face to face encounter would be better that a web-mediated one.
Lol
Perhaps I was a little lazy in looking at the synchroblog :)
He he... finely oily feathered friend. Lol! No, I'm a Johannesburgian unfortunately... mpre for me than for you (he he.) A face to face encounter would have been awesome. Not sure when I'll be in CPT next... do you go to a home church?
For me, we need to look at Africa and see what's going on for ourselves. I haven't read enough about post-colonialism to know the real issues, and it would be great if someone who visits here could suggest some great reading?
What I observe, however, is that Africa is still looking for an identity. But I think, in a sense, it's a fruitless search because not even America really has a an absolute identity... I mean, it depends which State you go to.
At any rate, what does Africa NEED?
-> Healing? (certainly. In all respects : sickness, slavery)
-> Finances? (certainly)
-> Education? (certainly - but education is a problem in a post-colonial mindset, I think, because who is doing the education? What worldview is being taught? What is an African post-colonial worldview? And does post-colonialism work? Is prosperity a Western idea or an African idea?)
The top two can show us why prosperity teaching has been so popular (not successful, but popular) within Africa. Even if it doesn't work...
Here's a question I have been thinking: what is an emergent theology on healing? Do we have any space to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to actually physically heal a person? Certainly, there is the truth that the church is a healing community... but what does that mean (in every respect?)
Hmmm... maybe I should put up a post...
www.ryanpeterwrites.com
"The Glory of God is man fully alive" - St Iraneaus
"home church"
Hi Stray
I am currently designing sacred tribe, and navigating the rhizome. This involves a Wed evening drink, and intermittant Liturgies, mostly in homes.
I am always scheming, rewriting the scripts, sniffing the air, reading the signs, looking for healing of body soul and spirit, always searching out the ecclesia.
Friendships are forming, more festivity and worship is promised, something is emerging and I am excited.
healing
Hi Stray,
I'm not sure we'd end up with one single emergent theology on healing, just varieties based on the historically rooted streams people are coming out of, all of which will be sufficiently rooted in scripture and intellectual conviction.
Personally, I believe we need to re-engage the kingdom theme as embodied in Christ and effected by Paul and other NT and historical figures. I'm convinced that our additions through science, education and technology have supplanted the original power of the kingdom. We've added medicine and psychology to the notion of healing and what the church brings. I'm convinced we need to explore spiritual technologies and practices (see the Nia and worship thingy I posted). Also, healthy community is a healing space for people, particularly the emotionally broken and rejected.
But I see these things as what we humans bring in addition to what the Spirit brings. I feel we've largely reduced the gospel to words and intellectual discussion and rational challenges. But the gospel is essentially about power, about experience, about transformation through encounter. This power results in actual physical healing (among other things). Yes, let's bring doctors and business consultants and the whole development/empowerment stuff into Africa, but let's also get back to our roots as empowered evangelicals. I definately think a post needs to be developed around this... but I'm not sure how to phrase it. Please challenge us in this.
Envoy
Making your own map while exploring
You've drawn me out of my sloth, Nic, to post a comment - good for you! Allow me an overused analogy: there are 2 types of people on this website: those who are doing "church as usual" and who are interested in what this conversation might open up for them, and those who are missionaries to their own culture - and who want that missionary stance to shape how their church community grows.
Most people on this site are in the first category. They're not church planters or church leavers or missionaries or house church people or new monastics or alt.worshippers or whatever. In 10 years time they'll still be part of...Anglican/Methodist/Baptist/whatever churches, slowly changing their Christendom-mode churches.
And there's nothing wrong with that! I'm not anti-Christendom, and I'm not anti-attractional church (much though I do enjoy kicking it in the pants!). I see, in the West at least, a huge decline in attractional church and although we'll probably have mega churches with us in 20 years time, Christians will begin to understand that that's not where it's at, and that the culture around them will have simply moved on, and asking someone to come to a mega church (without having a huge conversion experience beforehand) will be a lot like asking a rugby player to visit the local old age home and take up knitting with the oldies.
Africa, however, is a slightly different story. We tend to follow the West with a time delay of 5 years (for the recent stuff, at least). The fact that a church isn't valid until it has more than 500 is a lie which many pastors (and people) still need to learn. That being a pastor of a 50-strong church does not mean you're a failure. There are many people who still like to be a part of big church services, with big stage ministry and lights and sound and worship teams and singers and actors and preachers...and that's fine, but it's not the only way of doing community and being the church. Perhaps, locally, in the next few years, we're going to see an increase in the amount of mega-churches forming in this country. *sigh*
Then we get the 2nd category of people on this site, the much smaller category. These are those who are not interested in "church as usual" - for good or for bad. They want to shape their church, they want to engage the culture around them in radical ways. They are excited by the possibility of what church could look like 10 years/5 years/1 year in the future...and sometimes this keeps them up at night. They are explorers and as such, are often frustrated explorers, because the nature of the job is that there are no maps, and there is the constant doubt formed in the voices of others: "Why do you need to go elsewhere? Why do you think you need to find out "more"? Why leave what we have? Are you sure you're not going wrong?" And, some of the time, we agree with these voices, and doubt ourselves too.
Especially when we hear about churches who are living together as a community and who are doing worship and mission in ways we can only envy, and we say, "But you're doing it the old way!" And then hear the echo of our voices..."So what? That's good, isn't it?"
There are many people involved in this conversation, and they're a part of it for different reasons. Some enjoy the theological engagement. Some enjoy talking about church - what it could do and be and look like. Some enjoy the missional aspect.
But back to the 2 categories: some of these people will slowly bring these insights back into their normal church and allow that to shape it a bit, but will still be a part of a community which meets once a week to "do church" in their own building, hoping that others will join them (and again, there's nothing wrong with that - please don't get me wrong!).
And then there is the smaller group, who really believe Pete Rollins when he talks about the potential the emerging church conversation has for altering the very architecture of Western Christianity. Who aren't just asking questions about theology and cultural engagement, but are actually doing it - and doing it in a time where there are no maps for doing it. This is why there has been so little feedback! There aren't people who've gone before you who are looking back on your journey and saying, "Well done, you're staying faithful to the call!"
Equally you won't have those from attractional church modes looking on something like Afrika Burns and saying, "Well done, you 'get' mission and how that looks like to your own people - count us in next year!"
And so there's a sense in which the only thing you can expect is silence, puzzled silence from the one side and void from the other. And this is encouraging - because it means you're precisely where you want to - and need to - be: on the very edge of what it means to be the church in South Africa at this time.
So, be fed by your frustration and be nourished by your hunger :)
the mapless soujourn inc.
Roger
You dog, you burner, you monk. I appreciate your levelheadedness. And you stats.
A 50-strong gathering? I'd settle for 20! The people in the first category, the majority, can we call these "emergent"? I mean, WHAT is emerging, and OUT of what? Emerging implies activity, movement, engagement, (although it this and more, as your recent post on the Monastic shows). Also there is a place inside of orthodoxy for emergence. But where, pray, is the evidence? I look for it all the time, both inside the church, in the broader ecclesia, and in the cosmos at large. I can smell it, (thats why I care), but I don't see it.
Hondtjie, I see your comment on the "mapless soujourn" as very profound.
And so, once again, my snout is buried in the trough of frustration ... fool that I am, I say, Halleleujah and Praise G-d!
A history of the future
If you can, get hold of a book called "Chaos" by James Gleick. It's a history of the development of chaos theory, and reads like what the history of the emerging church will be.
Basically, before there was chaos theory there were sets of problems which people ignored because they'd been trained to ignore (just like Christians are trained to ignore certain sets of questions). Experimenters would notice slight variations in their observed data - "noise" - which wasn't supposed to be there. Theoreticians work in a perfect world in which there isn't any noise, so they can simply ignore it. The noise was, it was thought, simply an indication of the presence of some annoying un-eliminable factors, like friction or air resistance, or slightly imperfect equipment.
Until a few crazies on the edge of the accepted way of doing things decided to investigate - in many cases on their own for many years, only slowly meeting others who were doing the same thing, until suddenly one day they formed a critical mass of scientific opinion and proof and *poof* chaos theory was the new exciting thing. Scientists were pulling out incredibly simple experiments to determine the onset of turbulence (like a simple water wheel...slowly turn up the volume of water coming into the system and at some point turbulence sets in and the rotation of the wheel actually reverses - in non-predictable "chaotic" ways).
Mandlebrot invented/discovered fractals and a whole new world was opened up. In many ways it was just the same old world, but now it looked fresh and was full of possibility - and was exciting again.
This is the future we have ahead of us! Unfortunately it means being called crazy by the majority of the Christian community. It means possibly long solo journeys. And times of working on things when nothing changes or is discovered. But the task is worth it, especially through the dark and impossible times.
And luckily you know a few crazies...my wish is that you would meet more...and soon!
Connecting
Nic,
Yes, I too would like to connect, and keep hoping, but after 15 years of trying, I'm not particularly hopeful.
Roger,
Well, I'm in a church of 20 (last Sunday), but every time we take a step forward we seem to take two steps back. Won't bore you with all the details, but we've just got going again after the main leader spent a spell in jail, and now others are wanting to meet somewhere else, because there's a shebeen next door to where we meet, where two people were killed last weekend in a shootout. I still haven't got the details of what happened. But it'sd a bit like trying to herd cats.
on the edge
Steve,
It seems that you're on the edge of civilisation. Where are you currently doing church?
Envoy
Doing church?
Envoy
I'm not sure about "doing" church, but trying, by God's mercy, to be church in Mamelodi and Tembisa alternately.
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